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 Energy Feedback & Questions
Kaien
 Posted: Jun 1 2018, 03:23 PM
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Admin


Energy Feedback & Help

Need help calculating a certain move? Not sure how something works? Questioning why something is what it is? This is the place for you! In the interest of continuing to develop the system to the best of its potential, as well as keeping all the feedback and issues in one place, we've created this running thread for your questions, comments, and concerns. We'll do our best to answer any questions posted here - And this way, all of your issues or complaints will be logged in one place!

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Aya
 Posted: Jun 1 2018, 08:54 PM
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Trying the system out in Sonia's unmodded, so there are some things coming up for me! I hope they're legit questions and not things I overlooked. xD

1. What is the energy loss for "gimmicky" moves that have unique effects, like making the opponent unable to run away or changing their ability? In particular asking about Spider Web, because that's relevant to me.

2. In case of solo threads (devs, unmodded, some quests), how should we interpret turns? I know that technically solo threads don't have to follow very strict rules, because it's not like I'm cheating or powerplaying against myself, but I mean for the sake of being fair. If I'm posting with someone else, a turn is my whole post. But let's take this situation for an example: my character's Pokémon attacks. Wild opponent has a chance to attack, but it does another action. My char's Pokémon attacks again. All three within the same post, happening over the course of like one minute. Does the second attack count as the same turn and therefore have an increased energy usage?

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Rixie
 Posted: Jun 2 2018, 10:07 AM
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Lore


1. We’re taking it on a case by case basis, but usually for “gimmicky” moves, they cost 13% or 10%. See examples like Disable and Helping Hand. We tried to put as many relevant moves but of course we missed some... so just let us know if any of you have moves not listed, and we will get a judgement out.
For Spider Web and other trapping moves, it’s 13%

2. It’s up to the player’s best judgement. If they do it unrealistically, we'll make a note to the player, but we usually give them free reign in solos/unmoddeds.
Personally, I’d count it as a new turn. Consider that the Pokémon had a chance to attack, but it CHOSE not to. In my mind, that’s similar to the Pokémon games when an item is used; it uses up your turn.

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Sev
 Posted: Jun 3 2018, 05:18 PM
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Player


Okay, got just a couple questions

Does the new energy system apply to currently ongoing threads (any started before summer) or just new threads started after the update? It was never stated in the update so I want to be sure. =x


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Healing moves that heal 1/16 damage every turn (Ingrain, Aqua Ring, Leech Seed) cost 13% energy.


Does this mean that every turn it costs 13% energy to maintain something like Aqua Ring or does the energy cost only apply to the first turn the move is put into effect?

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Aya
 Posted: Jun 4 2018, 10:43 AM
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What happens if a move is dodged? Technically, it was still performed, so it should logically take up energy... But on the other hand, wasting a turn and energy is harsh.

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Jani
 Posted: Jun 4 2018, 10:51 AM
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Admin


@Sev

For already ongoing threads started before the energy update, you can choose to implement it or you can choose to ignore it.

For Aqua Ring and similar, the 13% is the initial cost. There is no cost paid per turn.

@Aya

what's funny is that I literally just asked Rixie and Kaien this yesterday. My brain had a panic and I was like OH NO because we never actually talked about it while forming the system. x3

But we pretty quickly decided that, although it'd be realistic / make sense for dodges to cost a bit of energy, we've never had much of a problem with people spamming dodges- and, like you said, taking up a turn (or part of a turn) and costing some energy does seem a little harsh.

So unless we suddenly run into a problem where people are starting to dodge a lot more... no, there is no energy cost for dodging.

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Aya
 Posted: Jun 4 2018, 10:55 AM
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@Jani Aah, I worded that wrong. xD The energy cost (or lack of, rather) for dodging is a good point too, but what I was also wondering about is if you still lose energy if your attack is dodged. Because yeah, logically you spend energy on performing it, regardless of the outcome, but it's also like "mwahaha, you just lost energy for nothing!"

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Jani
 Posted: Jun 4 2018, 01:21 PM
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Admin


@Aya Ahh. In that case, the move your Pokemon performs does still cost energy, even if the opponent dodged it. It sucks, but it wouldn't make sense to do it the other way.

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Kenos
 Posted: Jun 5 2018, 09:05 PM
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Player


For moves that deal multiple hits per usage, such as Double Hit, Rock Blast, etc. do we calculate energy on the base power of the move or the total amount of hits? For instance, Double Hit has a base of 35 Power and hits two times. Would it cost 7% energy or 14% energy?

I'm also curious as to how this would apply to a move like Double Slap, which can hit 2-5 times in a row. Double Slap has a base of 15 Power, so would we calculate energy by the maximum amount of hits possible or the resultant amount of hits? Should we just assume the maximum amount of hits are thrown out, regardless if they hit or not?

Sorry if any of the wording was confusing!

asking for a friend with water shuriken

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Aya
 Posted: Jun 6 2018, 08:02 AM
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What would the energy cost of Bide be? Is it... Calculated after the damage is done?

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Kaien
 Posted: Jun 7 2018, 01:34 PM
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Admin


@Kenos

Moves that multi hit will cost energry equal to the average power of the move, rounded up to the nearest 5.
Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Arm Thrust - Average 50 power - 10%
Barrage - Average 50 power - 10%
Bone Rush - Average 80 power - 16%
Bullet Seed - Average 80 power - 16%
Comet Punch - Average 60 power - 12%
Double Slap - Average 50 power - 10%
Fury Attack - Average 50 power - 10%
Fury Swipes - Average 60 power - 12%
Icicle Spear - Average 80 power - 16%
Pin Missile - Average 80 power - 16%
Rock Blast - Average 80 power - 16%
Spike Cannon - Average 65 power - 13%
Tail Slap - Average 80 power - 16%
Water Shuriken - Average 50 power - 10%


@Aya

Bide will cost energy according on the base power of EACH move that it absorbs, multiplied by 1.5 like moves that double power.

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Sivanandi
 Posted: Jun 12 2018, 10:54 AM
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Player


So, I noticed that the moves with double damage in some situations (such as stomp on a minimized pokemon) have increased energy costs as well.

My question is, why? If a Rapidash, for instance, is stomping on a Cleffa, it would use the same effort as it would if it was stomping a minimized cleffa, right? Just because it does more damage, it wouldn't use more effort. ICly, it makes very little sense. OOCly, well, some of those conditions are so rare (like, really? Smelling Salts? Come on.) that it would be a well-earned reward to have double damage with no increased energy, in my opinion.

(Also I don't think you included Steamroller, x2 on mimimized)

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Rixie
 Posted: Jun 12 2018, 11:44 AM
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Lore


True. ICly, there is that problem... Honestly, I agree that it doesn't make sense to require more effort/energy... but we were struggling on how else to make this mechanic fair.

OOCly, SOME of the conditions are rare, but others are... really not. For instance: Acrobatics doubles as long as the user isn't holding a held item. Venoshock doubles as soon as the target is poisoned, which can be accomplished with a quick use of Poison Powder or some other poison inducing move.

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Wiffie
 Posted: Jun 12 2018, 12:30 PM
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Player


So psychic-types can use a sort of telekinesis if they have the moves Confusion, Psychic, or Kinesis, right? So if a Pokemon moves an object with telekinesis, does it count as using that move and use that much energy? If so, since it’s not a one-shot deal and they’re actively trying to sustain it in order to move the object a distance, would it cost more?

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Amissa
 Posted: Jun 14 2018, 08:00 PM
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Player


Here's another one. I asked in the C-box, but I just want to put the question here to make it official. How much energy should Odor Sleuth take? It negates a ghost type's immunity to normal and fighting, which is a pretty big deal when it's used that way. It also negate's the opponents attempts to raise evasion.

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